Wednesday, September 28, 2005

policy nightmares

Sometimes, you just don't realize how good you've had it. For example, having my sister Judy be in charge of my insurance policies. For 40 years, she was in the insurance business, and I would have her buy my policies for me..car, home, etc. I remember that when it was time for renewal, she would call me and try to explain what my policy covered or any changes that she was making. And I would always cut her off and tell her not to waste her voice because I didn't understand insurance policies and trusted her judgement.
Many, many of the people I'm dealing with would give their eye-teeth to have my sister. Because it's now after the storm that they are finding out about their policies. And in a whole lot of cases, their discoveries are not pleasant. Is it the mistake of the agent, or were they not listening...maybe a combination of both. Or they wanted to save a few bucks a month and after all, their house had never flooded in 30 years. So I am seeing people with 4 feet of water in their home, and no flood insurance at all. But some others, they have flood insurance for their dwelling, but no contents. So they can fix their house, but all their belongings are not covered. Then there are the folks that never read their policy after they bought it. One guy had $200,000 on dwelling, and $100,000 in contents on his homeowners policy. He remembers telling his agent to give him whatever he had on homeowners, give him on flood. The agent gave him $200,000 for flood dwelling, but nothing on flood contents! So he can get his house fixed, and sit on the floor because he can't replace furniture. Then there's the guy with $150,000 on dwelling, and he thought he had $97,000 in content. But his policy reads $9,700. Hope he shops at WalMart to replace belonging. When we left him, he said that he was going into his destroyed kitchen to find something so that he could drink heavily.

And then there is the task of explaining the flood policy to someone, as in, what it doesn't cover. This is the one particular case when I start hoping that the men aren't going to kill the messanger. That's because they have garages full of jet skis, 4-wheelers, major lawn equipment that is capable to cutting the grass at a professional football field. Or several of the guys were into woodworking and had equipment that could build Michael Dell's house. And so you stand as far as you can away when you tell them that the only things covered in the garage are freezers, washer and dryers. And then after the anger is over, you try not to make a big deal about the guy who is lying on the floor, cradling his Harley Davidson, and sobbing.

So the moral of this story is to read your policy with the same amount of attention that you put into reading all those funny emails that we get. And don't think that just because you've never flooded, it can't happen to you. Make Noah your new hero.

Monday, September 26, 2005

Crocodile Jane

For the next day or two, I'll try to explain what I do on a claim. If this was a normal storm instead of the storm of the century, I would have been able to learn how to do a claim from start to finish. But with 101 claims, it has been important that Lana and I do just an initial inspection, and explain to the insured that we will be returning later to get more measurements and information.
So right now, when I get to the location, the first thing I do is drawings of all sides of the house. Sounds easy, doesn't it? But consider that we aren't talking about recently mowed, neat lawns. Trees all over the place, weeds and grass growing taller every day. The first claim I went out on was a doctor's house and existing structures, spread out over 11 acres. I was so proud of myself as I strided confidentially through bushes, over trees, and other assorted debris on the ground. I reached a clearing where, unusually, there wasn't a lot of stuff on the ground. As I was mentally congratulating myself for my jungle skills, calling myself Crocodile Jane, I tripped over a twig and fell flat on my face. Nothing hurt unless you count the grass stains on my slacks. (btw, Oxi Clean Laundry Stain Remover takes out all sorts of stains). So much for my grace.
Speaking of crocodiles, I have been wondering a bit about the famed Louisiana alligators. A whole lot of the homes we are going to back up to bayous. And many have swimming pools (the homes, not the bayous!). I asked one homeowner if they ever found an alligator in their pool. Her answer was reassuring. "Honey," she said. "If I ever found an alligator in my pool, I would never go into the back yard again". That was the answer I wanted to hear! Except.....
what I've found out is alligators are no big deal to these people. But I've had at least two homeowners casually mention to keep an eye out for the cottonmouth water mocassins....that they had already seen several in their backyard in the past week. I hated how casually this was mentioned. Casual is ok for a comment like "Be careful of the cactus".....or, "My, aren't the mosquitos bad?" "Casual" is not ok for telling me about poisonous snakes. Now instead of listening for the gnashing of teeth, I'm listening for the sounds of grass moving. It has made me learn to do the drawings much more quickly.
Speaking of the drawings, I'll have to tell you about those on another day. Right now, it's back to the paperwork and dreams of Amazon boa constrictors.

Sunday, September 25, 2005

back in the loop

Greetings to all. And thanks to Tim for letting you know that I have not been eatten by alligators. Lana got signed up for wireless internet service today, I think mainly to keep me from bitching. So as of the past few days, I now have internet and satellite TV. It was horrible being out of contact with civilization for so long.
I have so many stories that I don't know where to start. When I last wrote, I was leaving Houston and hoping to find somewhere to stay in Slidell, Louisiana. God blessed us by allowing us to find the last 2 bedroom townhouse in south Louisiana. On the telephone as we were driving, the landlord told us that she had been in to clean before our arrival. This was my introduction to the difference in definitions. Her definition of clean and mine had much distance between them. I don't consider inches of dirt on the blinds as clean. And the carpet was beyond description. Think I'm being picky? The fact that we were sleeping on the floor that night made the cleaniness of the carpet very important! After a week of cleaning, it has gotten better. Today was a final touch. The world's ugliest drapes were hanging in the living room. They are gone. Oh, did I describe this as a living room? It's Command Central. The only thing there is a 8 foot table with two chairs and all the computers, printers, forms, files, etc. that you can imagine. And now, thank God, the television. After several weeks, I have graduated off the air mattress to a real mattress. Lana still is on her air mattress. But she's younger. Every morning when I woke up on the air mattress, I had to crawl to the wall and inch my way up to a standing position. And the creaking of my knees woke up the neighborhood.
So that's the overview of living. I did spend a lot of time cleaning, but also launched into learning the insurance adjusting business. Lana was handled 101 claims. That is normally 4 months work. But in this situation, they are to be done as quickly as possible. My organizational skills took over as soon as I could learn enough to put a system in place. And we are doing well on the claim contacts, and probably ahead of a lot of adjusters. The typical day is that we head out in the morning and do appointments all day, doing the initial inspections. Then at night, it's back to Command Central to get going on paperwork. And then the next morning it starts over again.
That's all for my first night back on the computer. I hope this finds all well. Until next time, be safe and happy.

Thursday, September 15, 2005

Jane's fine and (mostly) dandy

I just heard from Jane, and she asked me to post here that she's doing okay. She's been able to help Lana with her adjusting and is looking at what needs to be done license-wise so that she can adjust on her own, because there's definately enough work!

She's settled into a condo, but has had trouble getting it outfitted properly, but I'm sure in time all will be fine.

She sends her best to everyone!
Tim, her computer-guru-friend

Saturday, September 10, 2005

on the move, again

Saturday
State Farm has quit flying the planes back and forth to Baton Rouge, so we have to move out of the Hilton today. Goodbye wonderful mattresses. Farewell ice machine. I am off to swamp land.
Unfortunately, we still have not located a place to stay. We have a lead on a townhouse in Slidell, but it won't be ready for maybe a week. Yesterday, after Lana went to her appointment we drove all over Slidell, Covington, and Hammond looking for any place to stay. Nothing. And as far as I've been able to find out, nothing in Baton Rouge either. So wish me good luck today and tomorrow, or I may be sleeping in the honda for a while.
Did you notice that I said "we" drove around yesterday? Yes, I got to fly on the plane with the adults and go with Lana to a claim appointment. The area looks better than I thought, in some ways. They have really tall trees in Slidell, and most of the visible damage is from them. You start thinking that "oh, this is nothing that a chain saw won't take care of", until you start noticing that the tree has gone through the roof or is lying on the top of the car. The flood damage in this area is difficult to see from the outside of a building, because it apparently rose and receded quickly. These folks yesterday had about 3 feet of water in their home. Which certainly did lots of damage to carpets, appliances, etc. But because the flood waters receded so fast, the plants outside are growing like mad and looking very healthy. As you drive down the highway, the electrical lines, etc. lying on the ground are frequent. So you find it amazing that the power companies have gotten as much electricity restored as they have. There is still a limit to what the adjusters can do. The homeowner claims can be accessed electronically, so it would be easy if all they had was wind damange. But all of these claims have flood damage, and for whateverr reason, the flood policies are only available on paper. At this point, copies of the flood policies have not reached the adjusters. So about the only thing that you can do at this time is make contact with the insured, maybe make some measurements, take pictures of their damage so that they can start tearing out carpet, etc. and tell them that you'll be back when the policy gets in your hand. So far, I am able to do all of this!

The airline that was flying back and forth is Pace Airlines, which is owned by the same guy who owners Hooters. Joining this blog list today will be 3 of the flight attendants. I told them that I was going to make up stories about how they wore tight, skimpy uniforms and that the airplanes were painted Hooter Orange. But they were such nice, fun people that I can't tell a lie. Well, I can tell a few wild stories about them, but I won't.

I don't know when I'll get to post again. As soon as I have electricity, internet access, and a place to lay my head. Keep your emails to me coming. And if any of your friends want to read this site, they can go to http://adjusterjane.blogspot.com or email me their address and I'll get them added. Hugs to all.

Thursday, September 08, 2005

another learning experience

Before I go into the events of today, I must tell you about an incident that happened sometime in the last couple of years. As most of you know, for 20 something years I lived in Corpus Christi. I was in a pretty convenient location. The two major malls were 10 minutes from me. Then I moved to Wimberley and worked in New Braunfels. If I wanted to go to a normal mall, vs an outlet mall, I had to leave work and drive into San Antonio (45 minutes, and then 1 1/2 hours home) or drive to Austin after work (1 1/2 hours and then 45 minutes home). In short, I was in the middle of a no-shopping zone. WalMart and Target in New Braunfels became the only places I went.

One day, I went with a friend to J.C. Penny in San Antonio. This is where I had an experience that indicated to me that I had spent too much time away from the civilization of a shopping mall. I walked into J.C. Penny, and started looking around for a shopping cart. And I kept expecting some little gray-haired lady to welcome me into the store.

The moral of this story is that we become creatures of our enviroment. And when something happens to throw us out of our routine, it makes you feel...well, sometimes...stupid.

I rounded up all the dirty clothes and headed for a washateria today. Get away from the Hilton, and the area around Hobby Airport isn't the best in the world. I was given directions by the bell captain to the closest place, but still checked it out before I got out of the car. There was Spanish TV blaring, I think they sold Argentina lottery tickets, and I was the only Anglo in the place. But it was full of other women and felt secure in broad daylight. Now, this isn't the part of the story about what forced me out of my comfort zone. It was the fact that I had trouble operating a coin operated washer! I didn't have a problem with the coin changer because I use those all the time in Las Vegas. (For the record, I got $10 in quarters just so I could hear the coins drop!). And I even was ok with the mega-wash-4 loads-at-one-time washer because it had clear instructions, in English, printed on the side. But I had this one load of whites. And put them all into this Speed Queen right beside the mega washer. It didn't have how many quarters I was supposed to insert. But I figured that I would just put some in and it would start. So I put in 2 quarters, and waited. Nothing happened. I put in another quarter. Nothing happened. With the 4th quarter, I felt sure that I would hear the water pouring in, but I didn't hear anything. I lifted up the lid and peaked in, and did see a little trickle of water. But the thing that bothered me was that right by the coin insert, the numbers 34 were flashing. What could that mean? I was supposed to put in 34 quarters? For one little load? Had my whites been measured at the 34th degree of dirtiness? Or that I had 34 seconds to act before something blew up (I've been reading spy novels). I had to act fast, so I got the attention of the closest woman to me that spoke English. Giving me what I fondly call the "What planet are you from" look, she told me that the 34 was the minutes left in the wash cycle and if I would put the lid down and leave it down, it would fill up with water.

I considered whipping out my diplomas and degrees from my luggage to show her, but I don't think she would have been impressed. And so here I am tonight, sitting back in the Hilton. I have clean laundry. But there is a question that is burning in my mind and may keep me awake tonight. Maybe you can answer it: "Why does anyone care that a wash cycle has 34 minutes in it?"

It looks like I will be moving to Louisiana this weekend. But still looking for a place to live in the Slidell area. One place has been located that has water damage on the first floor and no electricity. I fear the mold effect on my sinuses worse than the lack of electricity. So the search will continue.

Wednesday, September 07, 2005

Evening excitement

Yesterday, I moved all of the gear from the Brentwood Inn to the Airport Hilton. What a change in environment! Everyone is in a suit at the Hilton. There are no people with their dogs and 13 children hanging out in the lobby. There is also no free breakfast, no free internet connection (cost is $10 per day!!), and you would not know that there has been a national disaster and close to a quarter million people have been displaced to Houston. There are parts of me that miss the other place. I guess it was much more real in some fashion. The only part of me that doesn't miss it is when I go to bed at night. There's something about extra thick mattresses with soft sheets and duvets that makes me keep my whining to a minimum.

Not that it hasn't been exciting here also. Last night, or rather this morning, I wanted to know what time it was. The end table clock didn't have a lit display, and so I thought maybe I was supposed to hit the snooze button, because sometimes that makes the display light come on. It didn't. But just as I released the snooze button, an alarm went off. As I was wondering what the hell I had hit, I realized that it was not in the room, but was the general fire alarm. In my sleepy state, I was really worried and trying to figure out why the alarm clock had set off the fire alarm! As I became more awake, I realized that there was a voice from above, or wherever that speaker was, telling all of us to proceed to the stairwell and that the fire department had been notified. As usual, I paniced. I went over to the window, and didn't see much going on. I stuck my head out the door, and could hear other people moving, but not outside their room. I went back to the window, and saw people gathering in the parking lot (but none of them looking up at the building as if watching flames). I stuck my head outside the door again, and saw people walking in zoombie-like states toward the stairwell. Now if you have this mental picture of me racing back and forth across the room, you don't know me well. This was all done at half speed, and my half speed is pretty damn slow. But by now, I was awake. So I went to the bathroom (what do you do when you get up in the middle of the night!), brushed my hair (didn't help any), and put on a pair of blue jeans. Lana raised up to ask me if I was reallllly going downstairs. I told her that my friend Kay said to take every opportunity to socialize with the other adjusters, and this seemed like a good time. But that I would take my cell phone and call her if she needed to evacuate. After going down 7 flights of stairs, I was sad to find that no one was in a visiting mood. What a waste! After a while, the fire department arrived. They didn't even bother to dress out. But at least they all did get off the truck. They looked around and pronounced us safe. I thought they should have, at the very least, take our names. And all the good boys and girls that sent downstairs should have gotten a free something. But as I said, there wasn't anyone that felt like hearing my opinion. Did I mention that I did finally find the time: 4:15 am.

So I actually got to start training with Lana today. I got her files to come up on the computer and reviewed them for some specific information. And she started making calls (when she could establish telephone contact) to make appointments to meet the insured at their house. So far, the ones that she talked to today do have a house existing on the property. Not that they might not be a total loss from flood damage, but at least there is something to inspect. Of course, there was the one guy who told her that his refrigerator was on top of his car. Is that a claim on your auto policy or your homeowners? You make the call. I got an email from one of the people in my class, who is an adjuster for mobile homes. She had just taken a claim from one of her insured and asked about inspecting the mobile home. The woman said that it was down the street on top of the grocery store...she was pretty sure that the adjuster could find it although it wasn't at the listed address.

I think that this is only the start of a very interesting learning experience.

Monday, September 05, 2005

The Weekend

For some reason, my postings have not gone through on the blog. In fact, they have been disappearing into cyberspace. So I’ll see if I can recreate my updates.

Friday:
We moved into the Brentwood Inn in Webster, Texas (between Houston and Galveston). It looks like at least 60% of the people here are evacuees from Louisiana. As I was unloading my luggage, there was a young woman wondering the halls asking if anyone had laundry detergent. I was a little preoccupied with my own stuff, but I did ask if she was from LA. Turns out that she was an Air Force medic. She and her crew had been working for heavens knows how long, evaculating critical patients from the N.O. airport. They had been relieved of duty at 6 am, but had to report back at 7 pm. As her crew tried to grab some sleep, she had gathered up all the flight uniforms. Said that they smelled so bad, that she just wanted to help her crew by at least running them through a rinse cycle. It took me about 2 seconds to drop my stuff, and go find the laundry detergent that I had stored in my trunk.
You get to talk to people as they hang out in the lobby or outside. They are so grateful for all that is being done. Most had not paid for any meals, provided by hotels or other community resources. A nice black woman with two young boys talked about how her family had been approached by a white couple, asking if they would like to come stay in their home. She was so amazed by their kindness, and had not immediately taken them up on the offer because she was concerned about the havoc her sons might create in their house. Lots of people have their animals. Most of the dogs are running around, happy to make friends with anyone. I hear there are cats, but they prefer the privacy of their hotel rooms. Without any exceptions, these people feel that the government is doing everything as fast as they can. They are disgusted by the violence, and looting…and feel that it’s mainly the crackheads that are unable to get their drugs and are going crazy from withdrawal. Interesting to talk to these folks.

Saturday
It was like the first day of school, except it was called State Farm orientation. As I pulled into the parking lot, it was full of pickem-up trucks with extension ladders hanging out the back. My little Honda Accord, feeling totally intimidated, tried to make a run for it. But I forced my car into a parking space. I checked in with Worley managers Rodd and Dee Jackson. My name wasn’t on their employee list, but they told me to go through the classes and they would work on it. Now let me tell you about these classes. I think there might have been about 12 newbies like me, but I don’t know for sure. Newbies would keep their mouths shut and heads down. Because all the rest of the people were seasoned insurance adjusters. So sitting in these “classes” (more like updates for these adjusters) was like attending an advanced lecture on a micro-technique used in brain surgery. Every once in a while, there would be a word I would recognize, like “coverage”. We were there from 7:45 am to after 8 that night. I think my brain shut down about 4, but that may be a bit of a stretch. It might have been more like 9 am.
At some point, Rodd and Dee called me over. He asked if I had attended the three State Farm certification classes. I told him that I had gotten my license in June, and the next class that I could attend was scheduled for Oct. 5, which I had planned to attend. Unfortunately, the class was supposed to be in New Orleans. I wasn’t certain, but I think it might be postponed. They then asked if I had worked any claims, or even ridden with Lana. I had to tell the truth and say no. I did tell them that I was a Licensed Professional Counselor and felt totally capable of asking a roof how it felt about being torn to shreds. At least I got smiles from very weary people. So we developed a plan for me. Normally there would be trainers available to help newbies, but again the level of this storm changes that at this time. (The trainers are also adjusters that will be called into action). They told me to stay with Lana and work with her for the next several weeks. When I feel comfortable doing the inspections and the very complex computer program, let them know. They will find me another job, maybe with someone like Traveler’s Insurance. And I will try to find the State Farm classes somewhere and get those under my belt also so that I might be able to work for State Farm. It looks like one class will be in Austin in early October, so I will plan to fly/drive in for that one….and also get a cat and Mother fix.
When all the State Farm classes were over, as I said it was after 8 oclock, we had a Worley meeting. This is how much the insurance companies are trying to get people into the LA areas. There is no lodging available, even in the safer areas like Baton Rouge. State Farm finally told Worley to get their adjusters to drive their trucks to Baton Rouge, and leave them. Then State Farm is flying the adjusters back and forth every day between Baton Rouge and Houston, just to get them to start doing claims. I don’t know how long this will last, and I don’t know if I will get to fly in as an assistant. If not, my job for the next couple of weeks will be to learn the computer program (which also means learning a whole shit-load of construction terms) and be able to input claims while Lana is doing the inspections. Then when I can go with her, I will start learning how to do the inspections….assuming there is anything left on the claimant’s property to inspect and measure.

Sunday
I spend some of the day going over insurance terms and reading through some of the tons of handouts that were given out yesterday. I finally had to put everything up, and turn off the TV. I’m tired of reality. I’m tired of the armchair quarterbacks, most of whom are newscasters, focusing on what was “not” done properly. I’d like to see one of them, with a Cat. 5 hurricane coming in over a weekend, prepare a city with the economic problems, the intrastructural problems, the mass amount of people who did not own transportation, etc., etc., do any better. I’m tired of wondering how fast I can learn such a foreign language and start doing my own claims. I’m tired of wondering what the next change in orders will be from the insurance companies, or where I will be tomorrow. It’s time to sit back with a mystery book and watch mindless TV and not think for a while.

Monday
Lana left early this morning for Baton Rouge. She just called (7 pm) and said that all these adjusters were waiting at the airport for a flight back to Houston. She has “heard” some of the other adjusters say that the company is checking everyone into the Hilton near the airport, but no one has told her that officially. Maybe she’ll find out when they land in Houston. She has been given 65 claim files to start working on tomorrow. To put this into perspective, I think she said that she had done 80-something files for State Farm last year in Florida, over a 3 or 4 month period. And it’s really clear that the faster your files get done, the sooner you will be given new ones. She thinks that the claims are from the Houma area, but hasn’t been able to access a computer map program yet to verify that.
Maybe I’ll have more information tomorrow. Today is still another day waiting for enlightment. I did get to pet a cat today. You have to get pleasure where you find it.

Friday, September 02, 2005

Change in direction

Lana got a call last night, changing where we are supposed to report on Saturday for orientation. We were told to go to Webster, Texas. I jumped up and started packing, until I discovered that Webster, Texas is 6 miles from where I am now! Obviously, this company is so pleased that I have agreed to join them that they are bending over backwards making things convenient for me! We do have to move to a hotel, since our friend here is having company this weekend. And I would assume that by Monday or Tuesday, after orientation is over, that we will head for Louisiana. I would say that this job is going to teach me how to be more flexible. And it does make me appreicate what the government is going through. It's hard to get anything set up when there is no electricity or telephone lines to set up communication offices.

And it gives me more time to learn how to use my new laser measuring tool. It's one of those easy to learn-easy to use gadgets that all the adjusters are using now. I measured a room last night, knowing that it would not take me long to figure it out. The first measurement showed the room to be 4 ft 11 inches. The next measurement came out at 56 ft 7 inches. Forget about learning how to read insurance policies right now! It's going to take me a while to conquer the ruler :-)

Thanks to Tim's Dad, I now know that I am current on all shots and there's nothing else I can take. So some of my friends that worry will have to find a new subject to worry about.

Until tomorrow, love to all.

Thursday, September 01, 2005

My first blog post

Isn't this just too cool! My friend Tim set this up. Please feel free to share the address with other folks that I know that might not be on my email list. (I'm thinking like Chaplain Jean, Colleen, Robert, etc.) I think that this blog is going to be my therapy as I tell you what's going on, both internal and external.
We will leave Houston tomorrow (Friday) and go to Iowa (a city in Louisiana, not the state!) and then report to Baton Rouge on Saturday morning. I think we will be there for 2-3 days, going through orientation and getting supplies. And then we are supposed to go to Houma, which appears to actually be south-west of New Orleans. I have no idea if anything exists in Houma, but we were told that State Farm had found some hotel rooms for us there, so I guess at least one hotel made it through.
We have spent the time in Houston in a productive manner, getting more supplies. I'm hoping that I now have enough mosquito spray to last for a lifetime. It's been funny been to receive emails and calls advising me to get "shots". But no one knows what "shots" I should be getting. :-) I know that I had a tetanus within the past 10 years. I checked with Dr. Lynda at Hope Hospice, and she said I was ok, but could have a booster if they are offering them when we get there. I have lots of water and food that does not require cooking (like I was going to cook anyway!). And gas cans. I'm pretending that I am a contestant on "Survivor". That's better than being worried about the war zone I'm entering.
Like everyone else, I've been watching the TV stories. When you think about it logically, the government has moved pretty quickly and has accomplished a lot. I think they air rescued 3000 in New Orleans alone. But I'm sure that's no comfort to those people who have been without food for 3 days. I am disgusted by the looters. Not the ones that are taking food or supplies, because I know that I would do anything to take care of my family. But the ones that are rolling out of the stores with TV's, etc. can be shot on the spot as far as I care. I can think of no excuse for such behavior. When I was watching last night, I thought about the recent movie I saw, "War of the Worlds". A horrible flick. But nevertheless, Tom Cruise was a ordinary man who was driven to desperate measures to protect himself and his family. It made me think that none of us know what we would do when we are desperate, see no help coming, tired, hungry, and thirsty. I guess I'm thinking that the division between right and wrong is sometimes not as clear as I've always thought.
Thank you Tim, for setting this up. And thank all of you who have writen or called, even if it was to tell me to get a shot!

Marching Orders

We just got our phone call. Meet in Baton Rouge noon on Saturday. Then it looks like we might be sent to Houma, Louisiana. But as I have learned already, things change fast as the company is trying to deal with the mass destruction also. We have been told that State Farm has a block of rooms that they will be able to get us in Houma, so it looks like we will have a place to stay if we do go there.
I will have access to this computer later today. Then we will leave this location tomorrow, but stay in Houston Friday night. We'll have to drive to Baton Rouge early Saturday morning, since there are no places to stay between here and there.